Kings Generators

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VK2CSW
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Kings Generators

Post by VK2CSW » Sat Nov 09, 2019 4:29 pm

Hi All,

The generator I have (a 2kVA chinese thing) has developed an oil leak.

Just spent an hour taking the covers off. I reckon there's another hour getting the engine shrouds off before I can even begin to look for the oil leak.

It looks like I can get a Kings 2kVA for about $450 or a 3kVA for about $650.
https://www.4wdsupacentre.com.au/produc ... rs-24.html

I use (used?) this one to run household fridges and to charge batteries during extended power outages and to run a water pump from the tank during bush fires.

Although having a clean output for using with radios would be nice, for the price I wouldn't expect that.

Has anyone used a Kings genset?

Opinions?
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Re: Kings Generators

Post by VK4GHZ » Sat Nov 09, 2019 6:16 pm

Although we live in disposable society these days, replacing a 'cheap Chinese' something with a different 'cheap Chinese' something often ends the same.

The URL you posted appears truncated (returns a 404 error), and should probably be:
https://www.4wdsupacentre.com.au/advent ... power.html

It's widely acknowledged that Honda generators are hard to beat.
Add the cost of the original generator and a replacement, and you're approaching the Honda.
Adam, Brisbane
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Re: Kings Generators

Post by VK6NI » Mon Nov 11, 2019 11:00 am

I've had two Honda generators. The first one (1KW) I sold to get a bigger one (2KW). Both worked exceptionally well on IOTAs, etc. The 2KW unit had some slight RF issues that were solved with filters. The 2KW unit now sits in the shed and gets pulled out when there is a power failure, starts on third or fourth pull no matter how long its been standing without use. I have had it serviced over the years at a Honda dealer to keep it reliable but often goes several years without service. While writing this I'm trying to work out how long I've had it - it must be 15+ years!
Nigel VK6NI

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Re: Kings Generators

Post by VK2CSW » Thu Nov 28, 2019 6:45 am

After the storm here on Tuesday we were without power until the wee small hours of Thursday.

Needless to say, the generator got pressed into service and did sterling service.

I found that I could run an upright freezer, two full size fridges and charge various batteries all at once. The trick was to stagger the start up of each of the big devices. It couldn't handle the start up current for all three at once.

I ran it for about three hours for the first run then left everything overnight. Ran it for two hours, off for two hours, ran for 1 hour (once I had all three fridges together), off two hours, on 1 hour, etc.

Didn't really miss a beat and probably used about three or four litres of fuel.

All in all it passed it's first test.

I only have 2m and 70cm here at the moment - I could only detect interference if I had the handheld within about 1.5 m of the genset running under a pretty full load.
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Re: Kings Generators

Post by VK7HH » Thu Nov 28, 2019 4:06 pm

VK6NI wrote:
Mon Nov 11, 2019 11:00 am
The 2KW unit had some slight RF issues that were solved with filters.
Hi Nigel,
What were the RF issues and what did you do to rectify them. I'm looking at getting a generator for Field Days and portable, but I worry about RF noise on 6 metres and 2 metres.

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Re: Kings Generators

Post by VK3BA » Fri Nov 29, 2019 9:31 am

G'day Hayden,

I've had my Honda EU20i since about 2004 and it's never missed a beat. I try and service it annually (new plug, oil, filter). It can be sitting around for months and usually starts after one or two pulls - typical Honda performance. If you have a look in the Contests & Field Day section, there's plenty of commentary about generators over the years - particularly the popularity of the Honda EU20i which has recently been superseded by the Honda EU22i. While some people have experienced minor EMI issues, myself and many others haven't. Years ago at a quiet bush block, I parked my EU20i under a 40m dipole and challenged the operator to hear it - he couldn't.

I've found over the years, the most EMI issues at contest stations seem to come from dodgy USB accessories, cheap wall-wart power supplies and some high output light fittings - particularly on 2m.

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Nik VK3BA
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Re: Kings Generators

Post by VK6NI » Fri Nov 29, 2019 8:46 pm

Hayden
It was a long time ago on Dirk Hartog Island. Filters was perhaps too good a word, we ended up making coils in the extension cables and grounding the radios properly. All radios we were using were HF, I've not tried any weak signal work portable. We later used other generators on Woody Island and fixed all interference issues with Corcom 10R6 filters. I would not hesitate to buy the Honda generators, more pricey but definitely reliable and if you do come up with interfence it can be solved with appropriate filters.
Nigel, VK6NI
Last edited by VK6NI on Fri Nov 29, 2019 8:51 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Kings Generators

Post by VK7HH » Fri Nov 29, 2019 8:49 pm

Thanks for the replies Nik and Nigel. Seems Honda is the way to go, and the EU10 was the model I borrowed for the last FD.

Regards
Hayden

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Re: Kings Generators

Post by VK3QI » Wed Dec 18, 2019 9:18 am

Hayden,

You ask for specific details about filtering for Honda generators.

I own 2 EU10s, 1 EU20 and 1 EU22 and have replaced my first EU20 (circa 2002 with over 1200 hours)- although that generator is still doing service with the VK3KQ/p team.

When the Honda generators first came on the scene, myself and Peter VK3MV did a lot of investigative work into the type of filtering required.

The initial problem with the EU10 was that the Australian version (type U) did not have a built-in EMI filter as did the other types destined for the EU market.

This did not apply to the EU20 (or later the EU22) as no models had a built in EMI filter, other than a DC filter on the 12volt output.

Our initial tests showed that generator noise (predominantly from the switching diodes and the CPU) was insignificant above HF, but depending on how the generator was earthed (if at all), there was a problem with HF, especially the lower HF.

*************
If you look back through the logger forum topics, you will find a discussion about how the Honda generator is designed to be able to be used safely on work sites, meeting AS/NZS3001 Clause 3.5.1.1 (b)(i) which specifically prohibits earthing (Portable structures, Earthing requirements)

Unlike your house, which uses the MEN system, both the neutral and active are each 120 volts above the earth pin on the generator and hence conventional ELB devices will not work.

So on the one hand, you have electrical safety concerns and on the other hand you want to try and limit any EMI created.

**************
We took the view that one needed to ensure that all 3 leads, A,N and E were all filtered to ensure proper filtering, recognising the fact that in most portable situations making a satisfactory earth stake was unlikely.

We ended up with the following circuit.
Honda EMI Filter.PDF
(22.82 KiB) Downloaded 27 times
Honda EMI Filter.PDF
(22.82 KiB) Downloaded 27 times
and constructed the following.
P1010016.JPG

The filter is constructed in a plastic box with a very short lead which plugs into the power socket on the generator and houses two output sockets into which various extension power leads plug into.

Note the importance of the filtering of the earth lead. It may be possible to find a surplus EMI filter specifically manufactured for medical equipment, which already filters the earth lead within the filter case, but new ones are prohibitively expensive.

With this setup we can operate successfully on all HF bands with minimal interference.

As Nic VK3BA has noted, more often EMI is created by USB and plug paks and we have even found some laptop power supplies (from reputable brands) to be noisy.

******************
One final comment about the EU22 improvements over the EU20. The additional power output is minimal, but the ability to shut the generator down so that it runs the carburetor dry, is a great idea, especially if the generator is in storage for significant periods of time.

Cheers

Peter VK3QI (VK3ER/p)

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Re: Kings Generators

Post by VK2HRX » Thu Dec 19, 2019 8:58 pm

"additional power output is minimal,"
Indeed but it is enoough for the EU22 to start 240VAC air cons which the EU20 may not. Hence a distinct advantage for the travelling Grey Nomads.

Compton
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Re: Kings Generators

Post by VK3QI » Fri Dec 20, 2019 8:12 am

Compton,

Your observation highlights an issue with the "ECO" operation of the Honda generators.

When trying to start appliances like an air conditioner, which has a high start current, the Honda needs to be in the operation mode with the "ECO" switch off, so that the engine revs are sufficient to absorb that initial high start current.

We have found this manifests itself in the Field Day situation where we might have several stations on the same generator all operating SSB, If the generator is in the "ECO" mode, then it spends most of the time hunting back and forth trying to follow the SSB load which has a variable duty cycle.

The advice we have received by a number of reputable Honda service people is when running such variable duty cycles, it is far better to run the generator with the "ECO" switch off and sacrifice the small amount of fuel saving which is minimal when the generator is trying to follow the SSB load. Also long time wear on the motor will be reduced.

****************
Regardless of this issue, the Honda EU20 or EU22 remain outstanding units - well worth the extra cost over the cheaper alternatives.

I posted this photo a while back - an EU22 and an EU20 doing their thing at the VK3ER/p site, with a couple of EU10 generators standing watch! Both generators are fed from a common fuel tank which allows us to run the two generators 24 hours non-stop - we usually top up the common tank (10 litres) maybe twice during that time.
HONDA GENERATORS.jpg

Cheers

Peter VK3QI (VK3ER/p)

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Re: Kings Generators

Post by VK2HRX » Fri Dec 20, 2019 9:37 am

Hi Peter,
Yes I agree not everyone understands the eco mode and when not to use it.
Compton
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Re: Kings Generators

Post by VK7HH » Thu Jan 02, 2020 3:52 pm

That's a good setup Peter.
We're hoping to be running a club station for upcoming FD. We've got the generator all covered!

Regards
Hayden

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